Thinking of moving to Homeseer? Things you should know

Don't get me wrong, I think Homeseer is a great solution just not for a first timer. 

The interface is really aimed more at installers than end users but when you get to the point you need for instance multiple Z-wave networks it makes sense to  move to the next level with Homeseer. Before you run out and buy there are a few things to keep in mind.

Coming from SmartThings:

I do find it odd no one has made a plugin to use a SmartThings as a ZigBee bridge for Homeseer. Seems like it should not be that hard to do. I might have to do it myself at some point. Just got about 300 things ahead of that in the queue. Especially seeing as how my SmartThings account is locked out right now due to all the recent Samsung conversion mess. The "temp" IFTTT linkages I setup way back seem to still be functioning for now. In case you didn't know many of the SmartThings sensors and devices will not work with most other hubs. Many are ZigBee based which Homeseer has only limited support for. This is why it is important to get devices with cross hub support as much as possible. Many ZigBee devices, like Hue, also have "hubs" (bridges/gateways) available that allow them to work with many brands of hubs and multiple systems at the same time. Being able to connect to multiple system not only give you multiple control paths should one fail but makes migration easier. For instance if you have Hue bulbs linked directly to a SmartThings hub you need to access them through SmartThings and moving to a new hub, even a replacement SmartThings requires pairing the bulbs all over again. Using the Hue "hub" you just link the Hue "hub" to the new one and you are done. They also tend to give you added features and might help avoid issues.

For anyone else thinking of moving to Homeseer:

• Get it on sale. The software is 50% off a few times a year. Their hardware is discounted frequently too.
• Try before you buy. You can download a 30 day trial and run it on any PC. Just get a Z-Stick, download the software and go. If you do not like it you can probably send the Z-Stick back and be out nothing.
• Do not get Pro. Get the standard version. Most the plugins you will want are not included in the Pro version anyway. The only real advantages to getting Pro are the HSTouch Designer and Z-Seer+ Z-Wave Diagnostics are included which at sale prices Pro might save you around $20. But odds are you will not get to using the designer till you get most of the system setup and you can spread the cost over time. You might never use it, I still primarily use the voice or web interface a couple years in now. Note the HSTouch phone apps work without designer. It just has the default interface. If you decide you want a flashy custom GUI you can always pick it up at the next sale. See my post A quick start for HSTouch Designer for an idea of what using the designer is like. Want to see how flashy you can get check out these YouTube videos.
• Get the software and a PC instead of their "hubs". Especially if you get a refurb or used PC you get a lot more power for the cost. Even though you might not need it for Homeseer it gives you power to run other things on there as well. Or if you have a PC that is always on and not maxed just use that. For example I'm running on a 4th gen i7 with 19 plugin instances, 4 Z-wave networks, 4 Hue networks, 3 Harmonies among other things. As I'm writing this mine shows 1928 connected Homeseer "devices" (data/control streams not physical things). I also have several external things hitting the Homeseer API updating values. The CPU rarely reaches 24% .
• Go Windows. I hate Windows but some plugins only work on Windows so if you go Linux you limit yourself. Windows 7 if you can, just to avoid Windows 10 things like updating at the most inconvenient times. Another reason to go refurb / used PC.
• Get a Z-Net instead of a Z-Stick. You can put the Z-Net anywhere that has WiFi or an network port letting you put it in the middle of your network to reduce mesh hops. Or in an area of high interference. Or my fav another building from the controlling server. Note Homeseer supports multiple Z-Wave networks which work as one.This is the best way to reach other buildings and problem areas. Assuming you are not just doing an eval of course. You could probably send the Z-Net back too if the eval did not live up to your expectations but the price of the Z-Stick is easier to tolerate if you end up not being able to send it back.

Homeseer with 2 interfaces yields Z-Tool issue

There seems to be a bug in Homeseer where instead of using the bind address specified on the config page

It uses the first interface it finds as its primary. In this case 192.168.2.45 instead of 10.10.1.45. Normally this is not an issue as setting to (No Binding) lets it work with either address. A problem arises however when using the Z-tool app on the 10.10 network as it will connect to the server on the 10.10 network but it reports back the 192 network which then fails to find any Z-Nets. It seems the only way around this is to disable the 192 network before starting Homeseer.

A similar issue you may encounter is having to log in even though No Password Required for Local/Same Network Login (Web Browser/HSTouch) is checked. Note this must be checked for Z-Tool to work.

You can enable the 192 network once you are done using the Z-Tool app.

Update:

It seems this also causes a problem with the Sonos plugin as well as it only does discovery on the first network it finds. So I went in search of a better solution and found this info on How to change the network connection priority in Windows 7 which seems to be a better solution. For Windows 10 it is just a bit different of course. See this document How to change network connection priority in Windows 10

The summary for both is get to the window showing your adapters and use the ALT key to expose a hidden Advanced menu, select Advanced Settings on that menu, then alter the order of adapters in the list to put the one with you IoT network on top.

I must be missing something

Seems like the world is following in the footsteps of a Rube Goldberg comic.
For instance I've seen posted, multiple times now, people putting Echo Dots in their cars to stream music despite the fact it need to use their phone's data to stream. Why not just use the phone?
Another example is one going around of people BUYING the OLD (no longer made) IR to X10 interfaces and a Harmony hub to control X10 devices from their Alexa! I mean you can get a version 2 SmartThings hub for $50 and Z-wave switches as cheap as $25 for a single or $37 for a double outlet so why buy a Harmony hub for $75+ (more if you want it with the remote) PLUS for another $30-$50 to control up to 16 devices max? Not only more cost, unless you have many devices to control, the extra hops make it more error prone, X10 itself has serious issues with many modern things interfering with it's power line signals and if anything breaks you are probably going to have to dig up a used replacement on Ebay and hope it works.
Let me be clear, I used X10 for decades generally working fine till around 2010 when it started driving me nuts being generally being flaky. And automation is my thing so I have all the test equipment and such. I'd often spend a day back then running around with test equipment, plugging and unplugging stuff while monitoring signal levels, tracking down what device was messing my signal that day. In the end I had noise filters on almost as many devices as I controlled. Insteon tried to keep things going by adding RF connections into the X10 mix but it did not help my set up stability at all. Either because of legacy X10 stuff in the mix or something else I could not see. In 2014 I finally decided to try one of the new hubs and never looked back. So it boggles my mind people are still trying to work with X10. It is like someone trying to explain how a PDA and a flip phone are better than a cheap smart phone. BTW a nice write up on the diffs between Insteon, Z-Wave and ZigBee can be found here. Note the chart at the bottom showing what the top 10 security company support. You really want to keep what devices are going to work with your next hub since odds are you will be upgrading at some point.

I can even see stuff like this Google Home built from a Raspberry Pi as a learning project but don't tell me it is a cheap Google Home. $54 for the kit is cheaper than a Google Home but assumes you have a Pi 3 you do not need for anything else or you need to add another $50 to that and what you end up with is not near as easy to use as the $100 - $129 Google Home. Rumor is there a Dot like Home in the works that will be as cheap as the $35-$50 Dot. So if you want a Home instead of an Echo but have an issue with the cost, you might want to just wait for that.

Hue lighting vs Z-Wave - you probably want both

Common applications

I was just talking to a guy about which is a better fit. He said wall switches because most of the lights in his house a single switch controls all the ceiling lights in a room. Could be as many as 6 bulbs on switch so he is saying wall switches are cheaper. Wiring wise, my home is just the opposite. So is my shop though my barn is wired like he described. My barn is wired like a office with sectional fluorescent lighting because you do not want to step on something sleeping in a shadow. Other than the barn and some outdoor lights almost none of the lights are multiple bulbs. Almost every one is controlled by multiple switches. My house and shop are both very open plan with vaulted ceilings and 2 to 3 doors on almost every room. My living room for example has 4 ceiling lights and a fan light combo. Only 2 of those ceiling lights are on the same circuit and all of them are wired to 2 to 3 switches so you can control them from related entrances. Any home designed to be energy efficient would be done similar since you do not want to be turning on all the lights when you just need one and you do not want to have to cross a dark room to turn on a light. But even if your room is wired with 6 bulbs on a single switch, being able to control that group lights individually or as group like adding Hue bulbs would do would be seem to be an added feature over the wall switch as well.

Cost

First if you are looking at smart lighting I'd kind of assume you have, or will get, some sort of home automation hub. Not long ago I replaced several hubs, including a SmartThings, awhile back with one huge Homeseer server that oversees all 3 buildings. So the real question is never a Hue vs a Z-Wave hub. Hue is an add on not a central controller any more than Nest or Echo is. You can sort of do some limited stuff but again if you are reading this you have probably already out grown those limitations. Personally I have most my controlled lights linked with motion detectors so the lights come on when I enter and off after 10 minutes of no detected motion. I can also control them using Echo Dots around the house and a few are also linked to local z-wave and Hue remotes. Another advantage of Hue is they can be controlled by multiple controllers since it is in effect a WiFi enabled device when the Hue hub is used. Note the SmartThings hubs can talk to the Hue lights directly but people seem to have less issues using the hub instead.

So bottom line, the only bits that differ between using Hues or not are the Hue stuff and the wall switches. If you have even 1 Hue light you are probably going to have the Hue hub so it is really a non factor after the first bulb but lets looks at your example of a first time Hue install 2 bulbs on 1 switch:

• A 453761 Hue Lux 60W Equivalent A19 LED Personal Wireless Lighting Starter Kit sets you back $40 and that is really all you need to turn them off and on via phone, Echo ect. You just leave the switches on. You can turn them on locally by flipping the switch off and back on. Now this brings up what I see as the only real downsides to Hue.  1) if you turn them off at the switch they are off and 2) they all come on if the power goes out and back on. Though a flash outage or brown out does not seem to flip them on. 

• if you want local dimming or to be able to turn them off locally add a 455394 Hue Wireless Dimmer Kit, 1 Dimmer and 1 Hue White Bulb at $35 yes but note what does yield you an extra bulb to use else where too. So you really need to compare that to 2 wall switches which would be $5 more. Plus the Z-wave dimmer only will work with certain bulbs. If you want dimmable you really out to go with Hue.
• Lastly if you have family that forgets and flips switches off add a Mitzvah Family 1007 Magnetic Switch and Outlet Cover for Toggle Switches, 6 Pieces at $20 that works out to $3.33 EACH
• Now after you have the hub I found 3 packs of 455295 Hue White A19 LED Bulbs for as little as $22. Looks like on Amazon right now the best prices are on 2 packs for $18 but also watch for 3 packs. Always good to grab extras when they are cheap.
• Or you could get a Hue bulb with remote + the switch cover $38.

Note assumes you have usable bulbs for the switches already. If not you need to factor in at least $5 a bulb for the wall switches as well and their might be issues with dimming them.

Also some other bulbs work with Hue. For instance I have a GE Link Smart LED Light Bulb, PAR38 Floodlight (3000K), 90-Watt Equivalent that seems to work find with Hue though its short neck and wide face limit the fixtures it will work in. I got it for just $14 though on sale.

Now you could get something like the GoControl Z-Wave Dimmable LED Light Bulb, LB60Z-1 for $17.50 but then you have all the same issues as the Hue bulbs and none of the advantages. Plus each bulb is twice as much.

If you start talking 3 way you are looking at more like $60 per circuit going with wall switches. $80 for a 4 way ect. Plus I ran into issues with a 3 way setup for example where the only bulb that would work was an incandescent because it needed a trickle current through the bulb like the old X10 stuff did.  

All the above said I still like wall switches for specialty lighting like track lighting or even flood lights as even the white Hue floods are still on the pricey side at $22+ each Same with their 468926 Hue White Ambiance E12 Candelabra 6 Watt Connected LED Bulb. In both cases the applications generally call for 2 to 4 bulbs and in the case of floods I want something brighter than 60 watt equivalent. Not to mention they are not rated for outdoor use.

Research update: what about Ikea's TRADFRI lighting? 

It does look like it might be an affordable alternative to Hue once it is more supported given the prices I hear people are finding. Right now comparing the Ikea site prices to Amazon's Hue prices Hue is slightly cheaper. Alexa, HomeKit and Google Home support is supposed to be coming soon.If you are hardcore DIY there is a SmartThings hack out there to get it to work. And Homeseer looks to have a plug-in in the works. So it might be a question of waiting or taking a risk that this will work for you some day but it is not ready for the average consumer yet. Note Ikea does not have an outdoor option yet but they do have a track lighting one. Though again at $20 / bulb that can get pricey real quick. Their candelabra option LED bulb E12 400 lumen is a cheaper than Hue $15.

Note to self, NEVER make changes within an hour of bed time.

Went to move my house Z-NET onto the new network as the last thing before bed. Almost 3 hours later I'm back online. 😞 Part of the problem was according the the user forum all I needed to do to update the IP was restart Homeseer. When I did that it asked to install and update which I decided to do. Unfortunately I moved my instance to a SD awhile back to improve performance (the logging was killing the drive that also was recording security cam footage) and it seems the upgrade was confused and wiped most of my install and put a new instance on the old drive. Fortunately having a paranoid bent I backup my Homeseer instance every time the server is restarted so I was able to get a list of the files still in the folder newer than my back up saved off. Then I copied the files in form the new instance and finally the saved files back in. That sorted. I think at least. But it did not find the new IP for the Z-NET. Not surprising since I'm moving from 192.168.* IPs to 10.* IPs. After a bit of file scanning I found the IP needs changed in \Program Files (x86)\HomeSeer HS3\Config\Z-Wave.ini so after changing that and a restart I'm finally back in biz. Time for bed.

FB September 24, 2016

Think I've finally cobbled together a digital input device based on a Raspberry Pi that I can use for what the Timecommander used to do. Plus it talks to Homeseer! Only took evaluating about 5 APIs and learning the basics of a new (to me) programming language. Think I'll celebrate by turning in before midnight for a change.

Update: though this worked OK for awhile it started crashing on a regular basis so a better solution still needs to be found.

FB August 31, 2016

With HomeSeer Home Automation I'm FINALLY starting to feel like my automation might get past where it was 10 years ago. Just setup so when Google Voice sends me notice of vmail or Amazon shipping sends me an update, a yellow light comes on in my office and it SAYS "check your phone". Last night setup Amazon Echo linkage so can tell to put house into ready for bed and night modes. REALLY liking the multiple remote Z-Wave interfaces bit too. Instead of having a hub in the house and the shop for instance, I can have one hub with interfaces that talk over my network in each location. That might make even automating the barn possible again.

FB August 21, 2016 excerpt

....

Home controllers are even more messed up now than when I started the weekend. I think the Z-Wave stick on the Homeseer is bad. Ordered an upscale replacement but only have 8 days left on the Homeseer eval.

Moved UPS box sensor to the Vera Edge to try get that back online but it (and may be 1 or 2 others that replaced the Timecommander) just seem to have stopped seeing changes in the lines that are monitoring while otherwise responding fine. Yet the lines appear fine as well. Ordered a diff pro 8 input sensor block Homeseer supports but again only 8 days left to try.

Had a bunch of devices moved to the Homeseer before the device info got corrupted the first time that are still in limbo needing relinked.

So the next week is going to be REALLY jammed trying to sort if I should buy Homeseer or return a bunch of stuff and move everything back to a Vera.Tempted to just fall back to the Vera Edge (the Vera Plus still needs a reinstall) but so far the Homeseer appears to have some awesome features no other hubs have yet and other people don't seem to be seeing the issues I am so I'm hoping it is just bad hardware.

....