Alexa still not an entry level hub replacement

I was writing up a response to someone about IFTTT and Alexa / Wireless Tag integration which will probably but useful later so I'm saving it here as it reflects on Alexa's poor support for sensors. Note Alexa's home automation interface is still better than Google's almost non existent one. (See compare below.)

Why go through IFTTT when you can integrate Wireless Tags direct with Kumo? As in as in my fridge / freezer monitoring setup which updates values as they change in my Homeseer instance which then can trigger any action Homeseer can perform. Which is just about anything. Plus IFTTT was become very unreliable this year.

Alexa Wireless Tag integration sort of works. I can ask the temperature of a sensor for example, "Alexa, what is the temperature of the freezer" and it tells me the reading from my regular sensor in the freezer. Though oddly in the device list I only see motion values for the regular tags and what appears to be temperature for the soil moisture tags. (Not all my soil moisture tags are dead.) Again oddly you can't use the sensor values in routines. Though finding anything in the Alexa device list is almost impossible since it is designed for people the just have a few things. Even stranger:

• You can sort the device list in the web interface but not the android one. 
• The web interface does not let you do anything with the devices on the list other than forget the device.
• Routine management is missing from the web interface.
• The android list interface does have some groups to narrow down the list but way to few. For example, the only way to see a list of the 12 of my 348 devices Alexa sees as "sensors" is to try to create a routine with one. 
• My Homeseer sees 3137 "devices" as I write this. (Note a "device" is data stream or parent. As in a Hue Sensor would be seen as 5 "devices". A parent and 4 sensors, light level, temperature, motion and battery level.) Alexa only sees 348 of those (note some of the 348 are Alexa devices not in the Homeseer count) and only 12 of those as sensors from SmartThings, Wyze, Ring and Hue so far. Even then for example the Hue sensors report motion, temp and light gut Alexa only sees motion info.
• Lack of complex triggers. For example: if no motion has been detected and door opens, turn on light. If motion has been detected and door opens turn off light. Or if any of room motion sensors are tripped reset occupancy timer. When occupancy timer hits X minutes turn off everything in room.

When you have 348 devices (that Alexa sees) like I do, it is almost useless. Amazon REALLY needs to improve their interface so it can scale if they want people to use their routine framework for any logic. So while it would be nice to have Wireless Tags usable as sensors in Alexa to, for instance, announce the fridge is too warm, I do not really see it as big deal till Amazon makes their configuration interface more usable.

To be fair when Alexa is compared to Google's Home:

Cons:

• Google does not even have a web interface so everything must be done via phone or tablet.
• Often skills like Harmony where with Alexa you would say "Alexa, turn on Netflix". With Google that worked then it went to you had to say "Hey Google, Ask Harmony to turn on Netflix." and then often tells me it did not recognize me and would not do it. Now it seems to be back to just "turn on" BUT for instance when I say "turn on Hero" (my PC's name) to Alexa is just works. I say "turn on Hero" to Google it starts playing something from Pandora.
• It appears too that at some point Google Home lost some of the account links I had setup.

• Lately the Googles (I have a Home and 3 minis) seem to say try again in a few seconds a lot.
• To discover new devices you say "Alexa, discover devices." You say this to Google and it finds phones and asks if you want to ring them. Ask "how do I get you to discover devices", you get "I don't understand" and "I found a related how to get Alexa to discover devices"! It is also easy to do from the Alexa app with a swipe down. Instructions I found online say Google's Home should do that too but it appears to do nothing for me.
• Google appears to allow one Harmony hub to be connected while Alexa allows many. (I have 5 currently)
• Adding skills to Home is an egg hunt compared to Alexa. I just tried to add the Wyze skill for example and I had to search on line to even figure it out. Then while trying to link the account it just exited half way through me entering my login info.
• Wyze, Alexa sees all the cams, motion and contact sensors I have. Google sees on the cameras and contact sensors.
• Google routines still appear to be voice command triggered only while Alexa's allow triggering using voice, time, some sensors (see above), location, alarms, echo button presses and "Guard state".

Pros:

• The devices list in Google does seem to use the room from Homeseer. However I had to add each Wyze and Wireless Tag device to a room during the setup process manually. 

Smart bulbs revisited.

In The right / best way to control a light I discussed how switches vs smart bulbs depends on install. Here I'd like to update with some of the experiences I've have with smart bulbs since then. To summarize here are my note in my compare sheet.

Note you can get some crazy cheap deals on SYLVANIA / Lightify / Osram stuff right now.
Like this $9 bulb and gateway bundle still on sale. I got a bunch to sample to eval on sale. For less than $75 I got 5 bulbs, a gateway, a motion sensor and 2 dimmers. Awesome deal except only the bulbs worked OK for me. I even bought the Sylvania Smart Home 74099 Sylvania LIGHTIFY Smart Switch 8 Functions/ 4 Buttons, White, still only $10, which did at least seem to work controlling the bulbs but is not seen by Homeseer and so can't be use as a general remote. Homeseer did see the bulbs and motion detector did turn the lights on most of the time it should though seldom off. The dimmers worked for a bit then died. They were not seen by Homeseer. So all in all pretty much a waste of money and time. Too bad give a 4 pack of white Lightify bulbs is going for as low as $16 onsale versus a 4 pack of Hues which go for around $40.  Though I did stumble a 6 pack once $50 a couple years back. Which brings us to price.

I see a lot of posts saying Hue bulbs are too expensive. I think that is mainly because people seem to compare the Hue color bulbs to white version by others. If you compare a 4-pack of white bulbs they cost about the same as Sengled Smart LED Soft White A19 Bulb 4-pack.  Or Cree 60W Equivalent Daylight (5000K) A19 Dimmable LED Light Bulb in the (6 Pack) compared at a per bulb price.  You even here people going on about the new Wyze bulbs but they are about the same price and do not work with anything other than the Wyze app.

I had planned on using then instead of upgrading the Hue gateways after Hue basically cut V1 one users off.

Other than the price I'm liking the Hue motion sensors more and more. Homeseer does not always seem to get non motion event updates from them but otherwise it is nice to have them automatically turn the lights full on and off without need of setting up events. Especially after having to redo all my lighting related events after the v1 to v2 upgrade.

The Lifx bulbs seem like a good alternative if you want to avoid getting a hub though the white bulbs cost more.  And like I've said above, the one I got for eval had a lot of issues. Still the outdoor BR bulbs with IR look interesting but if you do the math, unless you want to light your yard in color, even at the $50 sale price you can get a Z-Wave switch, 2 LED bulbs and a 2 serious IR floods for about the same price.  And the IR floods turn themselves on and off as needed automatically. If you want smart flood light bulbs, Hue has new outdoor bulbs. 2 for $50.  Still cheaper to go with 2 LED floods and a switch though.

Tp-link (kasa) bulbs cost even more and they require cloud access. I have a couple of their outlets I got on Prime sales for $5. The cloud link fails way too often.

Even the TRÅDFRI bulbs are more now.

Etekcity, while I like their smart plugs for non critical stuff. Very cheap and so they have been more reliable the the TP-link ones despite being cloud based as long as you call their API directly. Going through IFTTT stopped working awhile back. I don't know if they ever fixed it because talking directly was so easy to do. But their bulbs are more than the Hues so why?

Z-wave bulbs like Aeotec LED Bulb Gen6 Multi-White are even more.

There are more of course many others, some even cheaper than Hue but one of the main things to remember is what do they works with? So in the long run you will probably end up tossing them unless remote control via your is all you ever want.

Transferring Hue v1 hub to v2 after the app split.

Note I'm using hub here though it is better described as a bridge or gateway. Since it is most often called a hub I'm using that here.

Wish I'd got more screen grabs but the app seemed so touchy I did not want to risk trying so I just snap pics with my other phone (on 3rd try while standing on a ladder in the dimly lit barn).

So first you had to reconnect all your v1 hubs to the new v1 only app after they stripped support for them from the main app. If like me, you interface with your Hues via third parties like Homeseer, Harmony, Alexa, Google Home ect. you might have not even noticed till you, again like me, went to add something. The instructions on line and this video look straight forward but also out of date since each app only sees a version of hub. You will notice the comments on that video mention the transfer option is gone now and not solutions have been posted. (I'll add a link to this post).

So here is what worked for me.

After doing all this below for the first hub I discovered it only works if you have multiple v1 hubs! I'd already connected 2 of my v1s because I changed my mind about which I was going to do first. Fortunately I have 3 v1 hubs so no biggie. If you only have one to transfer you might want to pick up a used one for the transfer. They are going for about $30 as I write this. Alternatively you could move each device one at a time. All depends on the number of devices you have and what your time is worth to you.

Update you might not need a second v1 hub!

While transfering my 3rd Hue v1 to v2 I still got the transfer message when readding the v1 to the v1 app even though at the time it did not see the "spare v1 hub".  So you might want to try the below without a second v1 hub first if you would need to buy one.

Before you start

If you have third party logic (could be calls routines,events, scenes actions ect.) using the devices on you Hue v1 hub(s) make sure you  note where they are used. You might need this later on as some apps will delete the references to this objects in the logic. For example this was just one of mine.

You might want to make a note of the IP addresses of your hubs too in case you need them.

Making the transfer

Make sure you have both the Hue v1 and v2 apps on your phone.
Take your phone, a small paper clip or pin and the new v2 hub to where the v1 hub you want to transfer is as you will need to press the buttons on the hubs.
Connect your phone to the same network the hubs will be on.
If needed add at least 2 v1 hubs to the v1 only app.
Do NOT add the v2 to the v2 app yet.
Put the v2 hub on the same network
Do another search for new hubs in the v1 app.
It will say it found a v2 hub and give you an option to download the v2 app.
Ignore that and you should see a transfer option even though the v2 hub does not show.
Note you may need to reset the v2 hub. If so instructions should pop up to show you show but the leave out you need to hold the rest till the lights blink. Any lights devices linked to this hub will be disconnected.

Next it wants you to reset the v1 hub.
Then you are done

Clean up

After the transfer is complete add the hub to the new Hue app.
If you had devices linked to the v2 hub you will now want to readd them. Search probably will not find them so you will probably want to use the serial number.

I later found this post describing how you can use a Hue dimmer to reset the bulb so you can scan for it.

You will probably need to add the new v2 hub to all the third party interfaces. Remember this means you will need to again press the button on the Hue hub and have access to the interface you are linking too.

Adding the new hub to third party interfaces will probably create all new device instances in those apps which will need to swapped into any logic using those devices. In my case this was more of an issue with Alexa than Homeseer.

Update 8/26/2019:

For added fun Hue pushed out an update that broke Homeseer (and probably other) integration.  The developer of the Homeseer JowiHue plugin has scrambled to deal with the change being released early. Note the 2.0.4.6 beta plugin to get things working again seems to dup all your groups and the bulbs now only seem to turn on but not off so you will need to waste time cleaning up and redoing any JowiHue device events. See the support forum for details.

Is the cloud over? (And some related EOL issues.)

I posted the other day how IFTTT has been getting damn iffy lately and services have been changing and going under so I though maybe a list might be in order. At least the ones I know of.

Back on September 18, 2015 I started a Facebook group for the people affected by FitBit deciding to discontinue support for custom trackers and even a couple non custom ones with little notice and no way to export that data. I scrambled and built a scrapper for people to get their data off before they shut down the pages. Fitbit eventually added the custom trackers to their data export a while after they shut them down but everyone that had been using those trackers had to find a new service to use. Generally at a higher cost. 

Since then this what I've seen / dealt with:

Sleep Tracking Startup Zeo Says Goodnight

Awesome device just poorly marketed. Technically they went under in 2013 but people the app still worked and you could still buy them as late as 2016. I got mine from the bankruptcy reseller while there seems a possible comeback. There was some effort buy users to support and enhance the app and make replacement bands. Looks like there might even be a couple bands on eBay yet. Basically dead as a product not though.

Lowes' Iris vapor API and devices that never came 2014

I bought one of the v1 hubs in the home security bundle only to find most of the devices on display in the store and on the website were not actually available. IT also turned out you could not do much of anything without a monthly subscription. The company often talked about the coming API but it never appeared.

Lowes' Iris forced conversion from v1 to v2 2015

A few things that glossed over were:
You had to "upgrade"
You had to give them a credit card and sign up for a subscription to do the upgrade.
A lot of the v1 sensors and devices where not supported by the v2 hub.
And some other things pointed out by users.

Google Drive downsize sort of upgrade 2015

I bought a Chromebook Dec 2014 that came with a TB of Google Drive space. Instead of adding a year of service on they added a second TB of space. I had almost 1 TB of used space on Drive at that point so that was great. Over the next year I added about 500 GB more thinking I could just pay for both after the free year was up. But instead my option was to remove 500+ GB or pay for 10 TB which was alos 10 times the price. So I scrambled to research for the best alternative and then moving ~600 GBs to Amazon. Also about this same time they came out with a new version that you still had to switch back to the older legacy version to use some features.

Safety Recall of all Basis Peak watches 2016

Loved this. You could download temp and heart rate data at 5 minute intervals. But they had a few batteries go bad back before that was such a common thing and they panicked. At least they refunded everyone that sent it back before the service shutdown. I wore mine up about the last day I could. As I recall I kind of made out on this one as I got mine refurbed, wore it a good year before getting more than I paid for it back.

Withings to Nokia and back again. 2016-2018

Nokia acquired Withings in 2016 and then sold it back in 2018 causing ripples in service.

Charter Communications Merges with Time Warner Cable 2016-2019

Being able to log into partnered sites like AMC.com where messed up for a long time.

Crashplan deciding to ditch the home market. 2017

They suggested people either move to a business plan at a higher cost or go to Carbonite which I left for Crashplan because their app kept resetting before I could get my data up there. Fortunately they honored plans already paid for and I had about 2 years paid ahead at that point so it was not total panic but the Home plan had been unlimited for multiple PCs. The business plan wa my the TB. I had ~ 5 TB on there so my prices was going to go up about 5 times.

Amazon ends its unlimited cloud storage plan 2017

Got Drive files moved to Amazon and notified people of the new locations to find their files (house concert footage of local bands I recorded for them). Since the plan was 
unlimited I started backing up files going to Crashplan there too. Was close to getting about 4 TB up there when they announce they would be switching to 1 TB for the same price unlimited had been. So again I was looking at a 5 X jump to stay.

Google Voice half upgrade ~2017

Around this time they also "upgraded" Google Voice. Again you had to switch back to the old version to do some tasks and still need to now in 2019.

Wunderground devolution 2017-?

It seems to have started a bit after IBM acquired The Weather Channel who had acquired Wunderground in 2012.  They started redesigning the site. It seems after a while they decided to start dropping features instead of rewriting them. My first personal issue was not being able to get my Netatmo station linked to my account. Things really went downhill when they tried to shutdown webcam support. The backlash was so intense they changed their mind on that one at the last minute. Since then though they seem to be pushing nightly builds without any testing as bugs will appear, go away and then come back. And features seem to keep going away. The latest announced feature drop, as of this writing, is dropping the free tier version of API key. This really impacted the home automation communities.

G+ shutdown 2018

After jamming G+ into all their apps then ignoring it they decided to rip it back out which required creating profiles in some apps and other issues like circles going away in Voice. Not to mention needing to convert all the posts there to a new platform or lose them.

SmartThings / Samsung merger mess 2018-?

Samsung decided to merge SmartThings account with their by making them convert to Samsung accounts and new apps. This after SmartThings had already required people to start over when "upgrading" from a version 1 hub to a version 2. No migration plan like other hub.

LinkedIn did similar after buying Lynda.com merging users basically by having the Lynda users match up and link their private LinkedIn accounts to the company provided Lynda.com accounts or creating public LinkedIn profiles to use Lynda.com.

Amazon Wand 2018

While technically still alive and even for sale but these were never supported all that well and it is a rare day now they can even get a connection to a server.

Facebook stops automated posting 2018

Affected IFTTT applets made the news but it also hit other third party integrations.

Gmail / IFTTT split 2019

IFTTT being able to trigger on an email was how a lot of things worked so while it was just a subset of features in terms of usage it was major.

Beddit Cloud shutdown 2018

Mine actually died shortly before this so it was not as big a deal but still needed to scramble yet again to save what data I could. On the plus side Withings came out with a similar but better device recently that works pretty good.

Scanadu to shut down support for its Scout device per FDA regulation and customers are mad 2016

Not a great device but had promise. Unfortunately they basic just dumped it on customers then moved on to the next thing without ever collecting any feedback or anything.

Microsoft HealthVault service to end November 20, 2019

Google said it would kill its Works with Nest program 2019

Google acquired Nest back in 2014. Tried to sell it off in 2016. And now appears to be trying to boost their Google Home Hub by make it THE Nest gateway.

Near misses

Things I thought about investing time and or money in but did not really get the chance.

Nest is permanently disabling the Revolv smart home hub 2016 

Fortunately I did not add this one to the hubs I tried.

Jawbone 2017

Mine died fairly quickly so I'd already returned it for refund so dodged this one.

Lighthouse cam 2018

At least they offered refunds

Lowes' Iris v2 shutdown 2019

Since I'd already given up on Iris at this point it made little difference to me personally.

Jibo 2019

Again at least they offered refunds

Stringify shutdown 2019

Was just starting with this one to see if could replace IFTTT when they announced it was shutting down.

HealBe soon

Still sort of around though after Globe 1 shocking people and them dying left and right the company is all but dead. Surprisingly they have a third version supposedly coming out but reviews are not great for V2 and V3

And then there also is

The above of course does not include all the crowd funded things that either never shipped or shipped something late and basically non functional. Though I did originally get some of them via crowd funded projects. 

And all the price hikes. Streaming services spring to mind. Hulu dropping the free (commercial supported) tier for example.

Updates:

Dakota Alert discontinues the 2500 series Jan 19th 2019

They replaced it with a 4000 series that while having a bit more range of course will work with any older sensors and does not have a relay per channel like the 2500 receiver did. I have a whole post on this one.

5/28/2019, Automatic forcing users to get new hardware that requires $5/month or $50/year subscription service by August 31, 2019. 

Also requires new app, works with direct cell service connection instead of your phone and it appears does not support interaction with other apps quite yet. Technically you can use it up to 3 years for free but with virtually no features other than as an OBD2 reader. Reviews of the new model appear to be awful. The one bright spot is that they are cheaper and Automatic seems to be giving a discount to upgrade directly through them. Per emails going out you can get the new model for $60. $40 off the MSRP but just $20 off the Amazon price. ($26.59 if you include taxes in my case.) If you compare the subscription fee to other services like Hulu or G-Suite for example it seem a bit steep for what you get. Sadly compared to similar products it is actually on the cheap side. Of course if you live outside the city limits like me where cell service much less LTE service is spotty any of the cell connect only models may be of limited value. So I'm going to break down like I'm sure so many other will and get one at the "upgrade" to at least try before possible having to scramble in August to find something else. 

Update Just a year later Automatic shuts down all operations.

6/29/2019 Hue app splits into 2 versions along with v1 hub EOL.

I went into the Hue app last night to check something and found it not longer works with my v1 hubs. Seems last April for some reason they decided that creating a new v1 app was the best way to provide support for v1 hubs till they shutdown support April 30th 2020. So to continue to use my 3 v1 hubs with my phone I have to set them up all over again. And next April they may stop working anyway unless I upgrade them to v2s. I appears there is or was a migration option.  Though that seems to need the phone app to see both v1 and v2 hubs. Then too the v1s were only out 5 years so one has to wonder how long the v2s will be supported. I've ordered a v2 hub to try to see if it makes more sense to migrate now or relink the hubs to the new v1 app and wait for the v3s to come out seeing as how the v2 is 4 years old now. After all if it comes down to having to unpair and repair all my Hue devices to upgrade then might as well wait for the v3s. Especially in this volatile market where so much could change in a year. See more about this and follow up adventure.

9/6/2019 Best Buy is leaving smart home users in the cold, but its Wi-Fi freezer will still mostly work

Fortunately I did not get into the Insignia Connect framework. If you did, you will want to file a compensation claim.

9/20/2019 TiVo Rolling Out Skippable Pre-Roll Ads for Retail DVRs

After announcing not long ago they were going to stop making hardware they seem to be trying to make sure the brand goes away by adding adds to shows you record. Though even more oddly if autoskip is on, it is not supposed to show them. So unclear who would ever see the adds. It seems they have also announced a couple new models as well. The new feature seems to be it might stream to a Roku instead of being able to stream more channels like Roku does.

10/17/2019 Yahoo is deleting all content ever posted to Yahoo Groups

Though I have not really used recently, it use to big with the rescue groups.

10/28/2019 Leeo Smart Alert is shutting down and​ "network will stop working"

Had not heard of them before but from posts I'm seeing some are sad to see them go.

10/29/2019 Sony Interactive Entertainment to Shut Down PlayStation Vue

Heard good things and was thinking about switching my cable to them. Oh well.

12/8/2019 20 VPS providers to shut down on Monday, giving customers two days to save their data

Sounds like this one might have been more of a scam than another legit business shutting down.

12/20/2019 Some Under Armour fitness devices lose their smarts on March 31st

Not only is Under Armour effectively bricking some device it seems some of the data will be lost as well. Thankfully I did not buy any of their stuff.

01/21/2020 Sonos will stop providing software updates for its oldest products in May

Basically they are cutting loose anything made before 2016. Fortunately mine are newer though I mainly use mine for announcements and those are getting more and more errors.
Looks like they might be hearing the screams.

4/29/2020 Belkin killing their web cams. 

Yet another reason to not record to the cloud.

5/29/2020 Amazon Echo Look and Spot No More

11/1/2020 Discontinued access to Amazon Drive through Synology Cloud Sync and Hyper Backup

12/20/2020 Saying goodbye to Flash

As the article points out few sites still use Flash but some popular security camera brands use Flash in their camera web interfaces which are required to make changes to the camera configuration. Reolink for example is still saying coming soon as of 11/15/2020 Note in Reolink's case at least there are Windows and Mac apps you can use instead.

Some are even older school and require ActiveX controls so can only be setup via IE browsers.

Running lists of killed services.

Killed by Google

Dying but not quite dead yet

10/25/2019 Wink

While not announcing just yet, it sounds like Wink it about to go down too with reports of employees not getting paid and support calls going unanswered. On 5/6/2020 they announced they were going to a subscription model to cover costs and gave people one week to sign up. On 5/13/2020 they pushed that back a week. On 5/20/2020 they announced they would keep it free for now "because so many had signed up".  Can't be long now till they fold.

And then there are the breaches and accidents

All Data Breaches in 2019 – An Alarming Timeline

Lifx after a year

LIFX Mini White (A19) Wi-Fi Smart LED Light Bulb, Dimmable, Warm White, No Hub Required, Works with Alexa, Apple HomeKit and the Google Assistant

WiFi / Reliability

I bought one of these a year ago to see if it would work better in a area I have where RF devices seem to have issues. Hue bulbs and even Z-wave devices out there  Unfortunately the WiFi is so weak in these bulbs that it is no more reliable than the Hue bulb I had in the same place. Note Hue and WiFi operate in the same frequency range so strength of signal is the main deciding factor between them working reliably. Hue tends to operate at shorter distances but works in a mesh so the distance to the next bulb is more important than distance to the hub. How bad you ask. Here is the signal strength stats for it and a Wyze v2, which has the worse WiFi performance of any IP camera I've tried, sitting near each other. The Unifi Outdoor+ AP is less than 20 feet away though a single interior wall.

It also seems these bulbs can occasionally just lose WiFi connection and have to be setup again to get them back. Adding them back is fairly simple but you probably do not want to have deal with doing it without a serious feature to balance that out. Especially since you are paying extra.

Note after adding mine back in today I noticed there was a firmware update so I attempted update the bulb via the Android app. So far it has failed 4 times over 7 hours even with that 92% signal strength. I tried to get the Windows app too but it seems to be hanging at install. That might mean there are Lifx server issues. The bulb does seem to work fine from the Android app but not Homeseer till I also restarted the plugin.

Price

A 4 pack of Hue white bulbs will run you around $40 to $50.

As I write this the Mini White I have is going for $25 each. Even the cheapest used price is $14 so cost is not really a pro.

Oddly however if you want off white, LIFX Mini Day & Dusk (A19) Wi-Fi Smart LED Light Bulb is running a dollar cheaper right now.

I also thought about getting some of their LIFX + (BR30) Wi-Fi Smart LED Light Bulb with Infrared for Night Vision, Adjustable, Multicolor, Dimmable, No Hub Required, Works with Alexa, Apple HomeKit and Google Assistant bubs. In 4 packs they can be had for about $60 per. Last year they dropped as low as $46 per in a 4 pack. Still though unless you need color it is a hard sell given IR floods like the Univivi Infrared Illuminator, 850nm 6 LEDs 90 Degree Wide Angle IR Illuminator Night Vision,Waterproof LED Infrared Light IP Camera,CCTV Security Camera go for $23. If you are wanting color outdoor lighting though Lifx is competitive even if you do not need IR illumination. As a white flood / IR combo though a Z-wave switch on regular floods and adding the above IR flood would seem to be the most cost effective and reliable solution. Especially if you already have a home automation hub.

Multiple hubs or all in one?

I've been seeing this question posted a lot lately as people have been taken in by the Echo Plus ads. I ususally reply with something like

The starter kit with a bridge and 2 bulbs + Echo 2 is actually cheaper than the Echo Plus. You can do way more with it and it leaves you open to add an Automation hub later without having to relink all your Hue stuff.  And a link to the article The Amazon Echo Plus Is a Horrible Smarthome Hub
(Note it looks like the V1 starter kit is getting hard to find. The V2 kit is $20 more making the total cost $20 more than the Echo Plus though you get an extra bulb so the "hub" is costing only about $10 really.) 

Problem is hub, like "works with Alexa", is a vague term these days. I've heard it used for anything from a bridge from something like a Z-Wave network to WiFi, like Homeseer's Z-Net, up to a PC like I use running home automation software and connected to multiple networks of multiple protocols. BTW as someone pointed out Ethernet hubs are yet another thing. Pretty no one uses them anymore but in case some misguided person mentions them you can find a good over view of Ethernet hub vs switch vs router here.

As for what you need, it depends on what you want to do. Again what people call automation is anything from an Echo controlling a WiFi device (which is really just remote control) up to systems that learn on their own. Kind of like drones that way. It is all about interoperability now. I think the best way to look at it as like your entertainment setup. If a Smart TV does everything you need that is fine. You might have wasted some money but if you are OK with that then it is still fine. If you want surround sound then you are going to need a receiver / home theater system linked in some how. Same with if you want to stream stuff your TV does not have an app for or the app sucks or you just do not trust the TV apps to be maintained then you want a streaming box like Roku. Same with DVR, Blu-ray.... So if you want full control of your Hue stuff you want their hub/bridge. Plus once you have the Hue hub you can link it to multiple things. For instance you decide later you want some Z-wave stuff and add a SmartThings hub. You can link the SmartThings hub to the Hue "hub" as well and control your lights directly from SmartThings or Alexa. You could connect the bulbs directly to an Echo Plus but then you could not control them with SmartThings. Or connect them to SmartThings and still be able to control them from the Echo but in both cases you lose features you get with the Hue "hub". Same if you add a Harmony "hub" in as another control interface.

You might also want to read "Who’s Afraid of the Big Bad Hub?"

Hue lighting vs Z-Wave - you probably want both

Common applications

I was just talking to a guy about which is a better fit. He said wall switches because most of the lights in his house a single switch controls all the ceiling lights in a room. Could be as many as 6 bulbs on switch so he is saying wall switches are cheaper. Wiring wise, my home is just the opposite. So is my shop though my barn is wired like he described. My barn is wired like a office with sectional fluorescent lighting because you do not want to step on something sleeping in a shadow. Other than the barn and some outdoor lights almost none of the lights are multiple bulbs. Almost every one is controlled by multiple switches. My house and shop are both very open plan with vaulted ceilings and 2 to 3 doors on almost every room. My living room for example has 4 ceiling lights and a fan light combo. Only 2 of those ceiling lights are on the same circuit and all of them are wired to 2 to 3 switches so you can control them from related entrances. Any home designed to be energy efficient would be done similar since you do not want to be turning on all the lights when you just need one and you do not want to have to cross a dark room to turn on a light. But even if your room is wired with 6 bulbs on a single switch, being able to control that group lights individually or as group like adding Hue bulbs would do would be seem to be an added feature over the wall switch as well.

Cost

First if you are looking at smart lighting I'd kind of assume you have, or will get, some sort of home automation hub. Not long ago I replaced several hubs, including a SmartThings, awhile back with one huge Homeseer server that oversees all 3 buildings. So the real question is never a Hue vs a Z-Wave hub. Hue is an add on not a central controller any more than Nest or Echo is. You can sort of do some limited stuff but again if you are reading this you have probably already out grown those limitations. Personally I have most my controlled lights linked with motion detectors so the lights come on when I enter and off after 10 minutes of no detected motion. I can also control them using Echo Dots around the house and a few are also linked to local z-wave and Hue remotes. Another advantage of Hue is they can be controlled by multiple controllers since it is in effect a WiFi enabled device when the Hue hub is used. Note the SmartThings hubs can talk to the Hue lights directly but people seem to have less issues using the hub instead.

So bottom line, the only bits that differ between using Hues or not are the Hue stuff and the wall switches. If you have even 1 Hue light you are probably going to have the Hue hub so it is really a non factor after the first bulb but lets looks at your example of a first time Hue install 2 bulbs on 1 switch:

• A 453761 Hue Lux 60W Equivalent A19 LED Personal Wireless Lighting Starter Kit sets you back $40 and that is really all you need to turn them off and on via phone, Echo ect. You just leave the switches on. You can turn them on locally by flipping the switch off and back on. Now this brings up what I see as the only real downsides to Hue.  1) if you turn them off at the switch they are off and 2) they all come on if the power goes out and back on. Though a flash outage or brown out does not seem to flip them on. 

• if you want local dimming or to be able to turn them off locally add a 455394 Hue Wireless Dimmer Kit, 1 Dimmer and 1 Hue White Bulb at $35 yes but note what does yield you an extra bulb to use else where too. So you really need to compare that to 2 wall switches which would be $5 more. Plus the Z-wave dimmer only will work with certain bulbs. If you want dimmable you really out to go with Hue.
• Lastly if you have family that forgets and flips switches off add a Mitzvah Family 1007 Magnetic Switch and Outlet Cover for Toggle Switches, 6 Pieces at $20 that works out to $3.33 EACH
• Now after you have the hub I found 3 packs of 455295 Hue White A19 LED Bulbs for as little as $22. Looks like on Amazon right now the best prices are on 2 packs for $18 but also watch for 3 packs. Always good to grab extras when they are cheap.
• Or you could get a Hue bulb with remote + the switch cover $38.

Note assumes you have usable bulbs for the switches already. If not you need to factor in at least $5 a bulb for the wall switches as well and their might be issues with dimming them.

Also some other bulbs work with Hue. For instance I have a GE Link Smart LED Light Bulb, PAR38 Floodlight (3000K), 90-Watt Equivalent that seems to work find with Hue though its short neck and wide face limit the fixtures it will work in. I got it for just $14 though on sale.

Now you could get something like the GoControl Z-Wave Dimmable LED Light Bulb, LB60Z-1 for $17.50 but then you have all the same issues as the Hue bulbs and none of the advantages. Plus each bulb is twice as much.

If you start talking 3 way you are looking at more like $60 per circuit going with wall switches. $80 for a 4 way ect. Plus I ran into issues with a 3 way setup for example where the only bulb that would work was an incandescent because it needed a trickle current through the bulb like the old X10 stuff did.  

All the above said I still like wall switches for specialty lighting like track lighting or even flood lights as even the white Hue floods are still on the pricey side at $22+ each Same with their 468926 Hue White Ambiance E12 Candelabra 6 Watt Connected LED Bulb. In both cases the applications generally call for 2 to 4 bulbs and in the case of floods I want something brighter than 60 watt equivalent. Not to mention they are not rated for outdoor use.

Research update: what about Ikea's TRADFRI lighting? 

It does look like it might be an affordable alternative to Hue once it is more supported given the prices I hear people are finding. Right now comparing the Ikea site prices to Amazon's Hue prices Hue is slightly cheaper. Alexa, HomeKit and Google Home support is supposed to be coming soon.If you are hardcore DIY there is a SmartThings hack out there to get it to work. And Homeseer looks to have a plug-in in the works. So it might be a question of waiting or taking a risk that this will work for you some day but it is not ready for the average consumer yet. Note Ikea does not have an outdoor option yet but they do have a track lighting one. Though again at $20 / bulb that can get pricey real quick. Their candelabra option LED bulb E12 400 lumen is a cheaper than Hue $15.

New Amazon Echo Skills!!!

I went into the Alexa app to link to my Harmony since the Harmony / Homeseer link has been a bit iffy lately and OMG the stuff that has been added since I last looked! 23 PAGES of just smart home / automation type skills alone. Wireless Tag even has a skill now.  I hear Vera is planning to have a skill soon. They look to be one of the few that does not have a skill already so they better get moving.  I only have my Harmony, Nest, SmartThings (as backup Hue channel) and Homeseer devices linked up. The Wireless Tag skill is only useful for changing settings and how often do you need that? That gives me 109 devices connected to my Echo now. Note if you want to trigger Homeseer events you still need to use the IFTTT skill. One complaint though Amazon still does not seem to realize their success yet. When you go into a group to assign devices for instance, they appear to have no order to them which makes grouping a few of 109 devices a bit more of an adventure than it ought to be. I did get a group created to turn on every connected light in the house and shop so I can turn them all off or on. I already have an event setup to turn on all exterior lighting which brings the up in groups. Can't wait till dark to see what the lag time is and if they all come up at once. I also created a group called fan since it could not seem to deal with Mbed_fan as a name. Having to rethink names of some of the Harmony linked devices too so I can avoid confusion.

FB October 18, 2016

just posted this response elsewhere and thought I should post it here so it is easy to find when asked again later.

A LOT of depends on what hub is right for you. So far I've BOUGHT and installed, in order, SmartThings, Vera Control, Ltd., Iris by Lowe's, Hue, 3 more Veras, Amazon Echo and HomeSeer Home Automation to replace my X10 based system first installed in the 1990s. Vera can be easier to do simple stuff like turn on a fan when it is warm cause everything is an app in SmartThings. If there is one already that does what you want, great, if not you need to write one. Vera mainly uses a wizard of if this or that happens do this. You only write code for "complex" stuff like this AND this happens do this. Both Vera and SmartThings seem to be having a lot of stability issues lately. So much so I looked into Homeseer. Homeseer can do if this and/or that happens do this which is a bit simpler than Vera but the interface is aimed at installers not end users. They assume you will create an end user interface if needed with an optional designer tool. I'm a long time developer so the basic Homeseer interface is fine for me. It is way more expensive than than SmartThings or Vera though. That said, I now have moved all my day to day stuff onto Homeseer, shutdown my all my Veras and am just using SmartThings as a backup channel to my Hue lights. Homeseer also allows you to have and control multiple z-wave networks from one hub over Ethernet. For instance I can control my house and shop from in one screen now and do things like turn off or on all the lights in both places with one command. No matter what you go with I'd suggest you try and stay with devices that work with most hubs. One of the things I really like about Hue lighting is they will connect to multiple hubs at the same time. I would avoid anything that wants a monthly fee like Lowes Iris. (Iris has a bunch of other issues too. AVOID.) Read reviews! I would try and minimize having to go to the net for stuff too. For example another selling point for Homeseer to me is local login and actions. Other than IFTTT interactions of course. (Note Vera has no IFTTT or Echo support. Homeseer and SmartThings do.) SmartThings is mostly in the cloud and even Vera wants you to log on via their web site. You also might want to think about install base. Google some of the things you want to control and see how others have done it on the hubs you are thinking about. In the end you will probably end up having to write at least some code once you get into things deep enough so you should look at those interfaces and see which make sense to you. Oh one last thing, think about how the hub / interface will handle a hundred or more devices even if you only plan to do a few things. Most of the interfaces seem to be made for a dozen or two devices at most without getting slow and/or clumsy to use beyond that. You will be amazed how many things you end up adding after you get started. My current Homeseer is monitoring and / or controlling 678 things including monitoring 17 UPSs. And I'm not close to done yet! (Note a single device like an Aeon 4in1 sensor counts as 4 to 5 things depending on the interface.)

HomeSeer Home Automation Nice write up and comparison chart! A couple comments... our systems are compatible with the Mimo product from FortrezZ and there are 2 plug-ins available for Insteon and X10 too. I would recommend replacing the "Z-Stick S2" with a SmartStick+ or Z-Wave.me UZB for performance comparable to the Z-NET. Anyway, well done! 

 Round Mountain Rescue Ranch Yeah I did hook up the FortrezZ to my Homeseer but the reaction time seems so poor no matter what hub it is on I've abandoned it for a Raspberry Pi / PiFace solution I'm trying to work the bugs out of. Fortunately that is an option with Homeseer!